ACE: Thurs. March 5
BDF: Fri. March 6
Do you think that power has the ability to corrupt people? Relate this idea to someone you have read about in the news.
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"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow Creeps in this petty pace from day to day To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle! Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5
hello all!
ReplyDeleteI do fully support the idea that power has the ability to corrupt people. Whether it be power in the form of strength, position, smarts, or wealth etc. people strive to be in a powerful position. At times this desire and intense urge to be powerful causes people to abandon what they know to be right (ethically) in order to have a selfish benefit. Other times the fact that a person is becoming corrupt is not realistic in that persons eyes because they are so focused on what they want. Recently Bernie Madoff who was chairman of Nasdaq admitted to defrauding clients for about 50 billion dollars. He is seen as one of the most corrupt crooks Wall Street has ever seen, driven by desire to be powerful.
Thanks Brielle What contributes to this urge? Why is the desire to be powerful so strong? Again, what is it the humans need to be happy? love, nourishment, sleep, friends.
ReplyDeleteA broad question....
ReplyDelete1.On the one hand, I agree; yes, power does corrupt people.
Sometimes, those who attain power achieve it "accidentally", having no real goals or perserverances for the position. When they encounter the prospect of living off of it, it becomes a good, entertaining game.
2.On the other hand, however, let us not forget that too often, those who gain power acieve this because they always were sseking power.
Hence, corruption is not only born by power directly (as in Madoff, stealing Brielle's example :p ), it is the *incentive* of power which motivates many people into gaining it in order to corrupt.
Madoff might well be an example of this as well; for others, look at a bunch of dictators and (even more so) politicians.
Well, here's my penny...lol
"Again, what is it the humans need to be happy? "
-I still think its statisfaction (answer: the universe, lol) But really, its different for everyone, some people are born "happy" in some of the world's worst places, while others... think Great Gatsby from here.
Yes, i do believe that power has the ability to corrupt people. Power is a huge motivator when it comes to controlling others and asserting yourself. those in power tend to be more respected, if not feared, and they have an absolute control. People tend to somewhat strive for that feeling, it allows them to believe that they can create a world in which they have the final say, and no one can question their authority. by being in a position of power others look up to, and admire you, thus giving some people a sense of worth and importance. A general example of this would be the handful of wealthy people who get caught not paying their taxes. Because they have all this money, and therefore power, they believe that they are above the law and can get away with anything. Not paying thier taxes is also a way to show that they are somewhat abouve the government in general, since taxes really go to the government.
ReplyDeleteI also think that if anything, power has the ability to reveal a person's true character. You could say that as a whole, humans tend to strive toward being better, or gaining the upper edge as a type of security blanket. This urge is seen not only between individuals, but whole groups and countries. Overall, the strive for power is rooted in our need to feel safe in our surroundings (and be happy). However, power eventually manifests itself into blatant greed; it is (like Brielle said) a selfish thing and it's only a matter of time before people begin to think of themselves as entitled. This was evident in A-Rod's case when he used banned substances due to a "pressure to perform." It was basically his insecurities that made him believe he had to do this in order to live up to a reputation, although he said he never would.
ReplyDeleteThoreau said, "There are a thousand hacking at branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Now to put this in context, the people who are corrupted by the process of ruling over others are not innately evil (we touched upon this in class). They begin as honest men, like Macbeth. Their motives for wanting to direct the actions of others may be altruistic or patriotic (esp. with Creon).
ReplyDeleteWhat is Macbeth's motive for becoming KIng? Does he ever tell us this? Or is it power for power's sake?
Good stuff folks---thanks to Alex, Jimmitti, Vadim, and Brielle for getting the conversation started.
Well first off, I've always thought about the decisions that holding power brings to ones hands. Even in my everyday life I see people make decisions or have to do things that I'd never want to do. Holding power can cause a person to turn on those who trust that person. Bribery, or other rewards can lead to making corrupt choices (relative to Brielle's points).
ReplyDeleteAnd reading Jimmitti's response makes you think of all of the people who have done corrupt things not only for power, but also for fame and just to be the best.
I definitely think that power can corrupt people. I see examples in my everyday life of things that 'power' causes or just things that come with the job, so to speak. People depending on you, the yearning to excell, and to continue to possess that power are all factors in the corrupt choices that people make. I am acquiesent with the points made by Brielle and Jimmitti, which are seemingly stating that:
ReplyDeletea. when you have power, you make decisions that you wouldn't normally make, or even decisions that you know are morally wrong but still act on them because of that need to stay at the top.
and b.) that no matter how many times you tell yourself that you'll never be the one who goes against his beliefs, when the pressure is on you to be the best and exceed everyone else, you will take that extra step to keep your spotlight.
Nicole...your comments are insightful and I also acquiesce that when one is in power, decisions are made based on irrationality and with limited discretion. I appreciate you sustaining the discussion tonight! Time for Seinfeld....
ReplyDeleteI don't think power has any ability, although it can change the actions of people. People in power can, and most likely will, act different than they would without power because there's a sense of superiority and strength with the idea of power. The people in power are ultimately the ones with the ability to corrupt themselves, not the power. And I think if someone were to say power corrupted them it would seem like an excuse to get out of a situation they didn't like. It's like the saying, "guns don't kill people, people do." Power doesn't have the ability to corrupt people, people do. If a person were corrupt they would be with or without power.
ReplyDelete"I also think that if anything, power has the ability to reveal a person's true character. "
ReplyDelete-Well said!
I think its good to remember that those that are corrupted by power are the ones who are pointed out most by the media.
Another classic question would be the NRA scenario-
You're a new senator; a group of folks visits you and says that, via fundraising, you will loose the next election if you don't support them (=your career is dead). If you support them, they will ensure your victory.
So its more than the force of power wich corrupts people, but very often other people as well.
Like Ulesses Grant- had the greatest Presidential scandal ever, and yet he was corruptd by individuals, not power.
"Again, what is it the humans need to be happy?"
ReplyDeletemaybe, it is power that humans need to be happy. Humans,(when I really think about it) seek the power to love whomever they please, nourish themselves in whichever way they'd like and dictate their friends as well. Power allows humans many choices, which essentially allows them to make their own happiness (by choosing what ever it is that makes them happy).
For example, what about Angela, the woman who had octuplets? All her life, she wished to have kids, and when she was physically able to, that’s what she did (and she claims she is now "happy"). The problem with power is that it can lead to too much of a good thing (fourteen kids). Power makes us greedy. The point at which power exceeds the level of self fuffilment and then results in greed and causes harm to others, it becomes corruptive, and often times dangerous.
(I agree with everyone in saying that power has the ability to corrupt, but furthermore, the pleasure achieved through power has the ability to corrupt)
I believe that power can have the ability to corrupt someone, but only to an extent. Power seems to make existable traits more prominent, and that is where I think the greed and self-centered actions usually reveal themselves. People with power tend to relinquish what is right, for what gets them ahead in the game. I agree with what Abby said however, as power is just something that a person can do their best to control, and that people seem to corrupt themselves, because the corruption was already there, just waiting for something to help it along, and I think that is where the power comes in. Leaders who can handle surging pressures and do what is best for everyone and not his or herself when faced with complete control, are ones that future leaders should emulate.
ReplyDelete"it is said that power corrupts, but its actually more true that power attracts the corruptible..."
ReplyDelete-David Brin
It should seem that most commonly, power is the predecessor to corruption, typically stemming from greed. It is certain that power has the ability to corrupt, but does not have the ability to produce any tangible corruption. More simply put, any one person put into power of any sort, is then faced with some variable of corruption. However, there are two types of people: the corruptible, and the incorruptible. This speaks for itself. Its not a matter of a one sided battle in which corruption triumphs, but more a test of will, as well as ethical planes. How a person responds to corruption is a matter of intentions. If one governor, or mayor, was taking small portions of the income to pay for his mother's rare case of the black lung, isn't he by that school of thought, just as corrupt as say, Bernie Madoff of the Wall Street scandals? Just a thought. Peace Y'all.
I think Brian makes a good point.. however there are different ways to look at this question. I believe some view power as a necessity.. they look upon others in a subordinate manner in order to place themselves on a higher level, this in itself leading to corruption. For a literary example, look at Nurse Ratched in Cuckoo's Nest, she was an absolutely corrupt character and also enforces her supremacy merely through unjust means. Power leads to the blinding of some, although it may bring out the best in others. However in reading Macbeth it is imperative to understand the blind ambition which some become overtaken by in the pursuit of domination. Although power is not always directly related to corruption, it overtakes the senses of some and therefore allows their priorities to become skewed.. they crave the sense of domination which they feel when they are able to put others subordinate to them. It also allows moral laws to be set aside (refer to Creon) and may very well cause the said person to justify unmoral actions in their own mind.
ReplyDeleteBrian and Gabby make excellent points here. I particularly agree with Gabby's Cuckoo's Nest example. The Nurse is obsessed with the need to control her patients and her ward. She cherishes order, authority, and conformity.
ReplyDeletePower is desirable especially when one does not possess it. The real problem with power is that it corrupts. In the case of Macbeth power will corrupt even at the thought of it. Macbeth is good at the start of the play and is loyal to Duncan but after hearing the prophecies from three witches that he will be king he becomes totally consumed with the idea usurping the power of the king.
The three witches say to Macbeth, “all hail, Macbeth, that shalt be King hereafter!”(1.3.53). the Three witches tell Macbeth that he will become king. Macbeth doesn’t really believe them at first until the first part of the prophecy comes true. Then he begins to think about the idea of becoming king. Lady Macbeth gets into the act too. She relishes at the idea of becoming Queen (do you think that she has had these thoughts before?) Husband and wife begin to plot to kill the king and make it look like the guards did it. Just in this section power has caused Macbeth to go from a loyal servant to murderer intent on committing regicide. And it happens so fast....
See you tomorrow....
I agree that power inevitably will bring corruption however as Brian said it is how we handle, manage and check our power that limits corruption. It takes a rare and strong individual to not give into the greed that is asociated with corruption; which is almost too hard to resist for the average flawed human. It is human nature to take more than we need because it sets us apart, divides classes and power ultimately defines you.
ReplyDelete"(do you think that she has had these thoughts before?)"
ReplyDeletePerhaps she is a foil to Macbeth's good chatecter, and essentially (in the course of the act) becomes part of his charecter, the force that disbalances the good vs evil equilibrium inside Macbeth...
I believe just such a theme- the quest for power- was the main plot in Star Wars (although I never saw the whole series).
I find it also interesting to not only consider political power, but also military power. Armies generally obey the government, but if they revolt, the state surely won't last long. This means that it is essential to have loyal commanders, and the ruler may ofen chose to place an honest person in the Army rather than in the government...
This is, I believe, also another contributing factor in Macbeth's shift in charecter.
I do believe that power can corrupt a person, because a person can easily run away with fantasies of greatness. I agree with Ellen that a strong individual who overcomes prospects of power is strong indeed. Power can corrupt a person's perception of the world around them, where they haughtily seperate others based on their level of power. Stratification emerges from these judgements, where soon people are classified as powerful or weak, or sometimes in between. This in turn feeds the strong with ideas of force and strength. A human is capable of being obsessed with searching for ways to be better than others. It is within our primal instinct that the strongest and most adept survive, as in the survival of the fittest. A person comstantly in a circumstance of potential power will continuously be mindful of the ways in which they can be better than others. This mindset can cloud a humans thought process so that every decision they make depends on weighing strength and weakness. A power hungry person will form every thought around being successful, which can cause unhappiness. They will sacrafice what they have (ie. family and a house) to gain further power in hopes that power will fill the void that the difference has created. Therefore, power can corrupt a human by being the driving force to displace the good that a person has in their minds and hearts as well as material world. It is a vehicle that is known to skew the thought process, and clouds the mechanisms needed for judgement and decision making. {~the end~}
ReplyDeleteI believe that the marked ability to act or do takes control of the corruptible, forcing the desire of that control into the person. Even if just a though, when the capability of accomplishing something comes into retrospect, the strength of possession takes authority over the mind. When the idea of having power mixes its way into the spin of things, the mind can't always go back to reality. It is too focused on what could be than what currently is that there is no way of controlling this new ideology. If you look back at Act 1 Scene 3 in Macbeth, even the thought of extended power begins to plant the seed of corruption within him. After the witch's prophecies began to come true, Macbeth was determined in making sure that they would keep coming true- hence his quest to become King of Scotland. Unlike Banquo, Macbeth was too quick at believing these uncertainties and was ultimately doomed. At this point there is no going back; the mind has already been corrupted. In this example power has yet to even take place, and the mere thought, the desire, has caused a strange, uncontrollable decay of purity.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the power that corrupts but the desire for it. Power doesn't corrupt, the process of acquiring power does. its human nature to strive for something more then we have, it just so happens that whatever we strive after boils down to power be it money, position (king) or materials. the chase of these things is what corrupts not the acquiring of. Once power is gained the only logical things to do is be happy or keep chasing power. like Brian said it comes down to those who are corruptible and those who aren't. sadly the taste of power, in the case of macbeth, and many others, is what drives him to seek more. without his new thanedom, Macbeth wouldn't even consider taking the throne, let alone plot to. it is his desire to gain more power to couple his own that corrupts, not the power itself
ReplyDeleteafter being confused by the whole sign in thing...
ReplyDeletepower corrupts because people want the world to be more agreeable to their desires. Having power means having the ability to do this for good or evil. For Macbeth that means (in my opinion) obtaining power to please lady macbeth because he is only happy when she is happy. For everyone, power is the ability to make changes... usually by either getting money or achieving a position of power which often go hand in hand. It corrupts because people once gaining power will use it to obtain their goals no matter how it effects others.
Power may not have the ability to corrupt people, because compassionate and selfish leaders coexist in the world today, but rather it intensifies certain qualities that either destroy or recreate a person. In the case of Macbeth, his desire to please his wife is an insecurity, that when exploited with the temptation of power causes a moral conflict and the destruction of his character. Which can then pose the question..was Macbeth corrupted by power or was he corrupted to begin with? In this situation i consider power a catalyst, Macbeth's desire for power sets in motion events that ultimately lead to his corruption.
ReplyDeletein my opinion, power definitely corrupts a person's personality. in most cases, the idea of being able to gain more power brings out the greed in someone. such as in antigone, with creon being blinded of the whole family situation by his complete power over his state. as brielle said, madoff has recently "stolen" the money of many investors, and threw the more and more investors he lied to, his gredd increased, and just made the situation continue.
ReplyDeleteI agree with stephen that it is the desire for power that corrupts people, not power itself. When people find themselves in a position of power they usually act just as they find the responsibility weighing down on them. Therefore the "power" is not corrupt. However, even good rulers find themselves in sticky situations. It is human nature to desire power, to control whatever they imagine. However, obstacles exist in the path of power for many, and some feel the need to terminate these obstacles, whether good or bad.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone gains power or leverage, whether in a social situation, government, or over any group of people, power incites within human nature an obligation to explore its limits, to exploit it. Rare, and infinitely desirable, is the person who can resist the seduction of power and practice self-restraint, in terms of not domineering or abusing the power they have been given.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is not truely power that corrupts a person but the desire for it. I do disagree that it is human nature to seek power, though. It seems, to me, that it is human nature to strive to be the greatest at, or have the ability to do, something. Maybe people corrupt power. Were people like Madoff always thinking of ways to have more and leave others with less. He just used power his name had as a way to gain the money, but if he did not have the power would he be better because he did not have the oppurtunity. I think power is only an oppurtunity for one to do what they want, "good" or "bad". As a final thought people corrupt the possibilities given to them through power, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI believe both power and the pursuit of power corrupt people. People desire to do many things, some of which are questionable, but they don't act upon these urges because they cannot, or realize it's not worth the repercussions. But power tips the scales in the favor of those who have it, creating an uneven playing field. Humans are sensory creatures, enjoying things that make them happy or cause pleasure. Power is a gateway to various pleasures of life, so those with it will abuse it, and overindulge. Everything is toxic when it's overindulged in, and no one ever stays within the parameters of their power.
ReplyDelete